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Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/15/2009
Posts: 3
Points: 9
Location: Central California
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Hey Lou, I am new to this site and a total rookie painter, I need your advice, I am painting a water truck using Martin-Senour Napa brand paint, single stage 87-50808 Ogden white and PIH35 hardener, I have used a Harbor Freight HVLP item 93305, primer went on good but color looked like crap, sanded smooth, went out bought a Kobalt HVLP item 0301337 from Lowe's not any better, I have a industrial size 80 gal compressor puts out lots of cfm and psi, I have adj the gun every which way but loose no luck, long story short, is there a HVLP gun out there that will shoot smooth and is fairly simple to set up for a rookie.
Not trying to go thru the change in life just paint a water truck.
Thank you Lou.
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Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/14/2008
Posts: 18
Points: 54
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Hey Bodhi, Did the gun setup change between the primer and SS white? What size tip did you use? Typically, a tip large enough to get a good finish on a high-build primer is way too big for topcoat, especially if you're using a single-stage urethane. Neither the Harbor Freight or Kobalt guns are particularly advanced, but that just means it might take a little more practice to get things right. I've seen some of the most talented custom painters figure out how to make a $30 import gun work just fine. I'm talking beautiful paint jobs. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of folks screw up a paint job using a high-dollar LVPL with digital gauge, etc. While using good equipment certainly helps; it's secondary to knowing how to use it correctly. Tell us what you mean by "color looked like crap." Are we trying to figure out a fix for runs, orange peel, dull finish? By the way, welcome to the Shop Talk forum. Mpaint
Technical Support Kirker Automotive Finishes Toll-free: 1-800-307-7951 info@kirkerautomotive.comwww.KirkerAutomotive.com
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Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/15/2009
Posts: 3
Points: 9
Location: Central California
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Hi Mpaint,
Thank you for such a fast response, at first no changes, but then I would make changes trying to get better results, which I could not seem to find. Tip on Kobalt is a 1.5, Harbor Freight is a .057" the HF is a 2 qt pressure pot HVLP, as far as paint looking from a distance it looks ok but up close you can see were the texture would go from smooth shinny to gritty with no shine, maybe it is me and not the equipment, if I laid it on heaver trying to overcome this I would some time get a sag or run, and there was orange peel in it also, the orange peel you could almost live with but were the paint goes from smooth shinny to gritty no shine that's no good. If a particular brand or piece of equipment would make things easier or better I would be willing to get it to get through this project, Thank you very much for your help.
Bodhi
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Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/14/2008
Posts: 18
Points: 54
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Hmmm... the paint near the top of the cup is no different than the paint at the bottom of the cup. And the gun doesn't change at all while you're in the process of spraying. The only thing that can change during the application is the painter's technique -- and that is usually the cause of application defects like you've described. For the finish to be slick and smooth in some spots, then grainy and dull in others indicates an inconsistancy. It could be the distance of your gun to the surface, the speed of your pass, fanning the gun out side to side rather than keeping it perpindicular, turning the gun up or down to get paint sprayed at the tougher angles. There's lots of things you have to be aware of when pulling the trigger. I'm curious if there's any noticable pattern to the variation in the finish? Does it appear that the flat surfaces (hood, trunk lid, roof) are different than verticle panels like quarters, doors, etc? Sounds like you are having a wet/dry issue. Challenge is finding the balance between shooting the single-stage on wet enough to get good leveling and a decent gloss, but not so wet that it runs on you. At the other end, if you shoot too dry, the paint doesn't flow out (resulting in orange peel, or worse, grainy dry spray), and lacks any sheen. There's a learning curve to all this; it'll get easier as you get more time with a gun in your hand. It's important to practice and get the right feel for shooting different materials. Mpaint
Technical Support Kirker Automotive Finishes Toll-free: 1-800-307-7951 info@kirkerautomotive.comwww.KirkerAutomotive.com
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Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/14/2008
Posts: 18
Points: 54
Location: Newburgh, NY
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It also just occured to me as I hit "post" that you're painting a water truck. That's an awful lot of surface to have to cover. If it's warm where you are and you're not using an appropriate reducer/activator combo for that temperature range, you can easily run into another issue, which is having the first coat close up before you hit it with your second coat. Instead of melting into the previous coat, it just sort of sits on top, causing a dry, grainy appearance. Last summer, I had a fleet painter in Houston trying to paint box trucks when it was 105°F outside. That meant it was about 99°F inside the shop. He wasn't even using a slow activator! At that temperature, you can bet the solvents in the material have completely flashed out before the paint even hits the side of the truck. You want flow, leveling and gloss? As we say here in New York, fagedaboutit! Whether that's what happened in your case or not, it's a good lesson. It's so important to use the correct speed activators and reducers for the conditions at which you are applying your materials. Mpaint
Technical Support Kirker Automotive Finishes Toll-free: 1-800-307-7951 info@kirkerautomotive.comwww.KirkerAutomotive.com
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Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/20/2008
Posts: 14
Points: -55
Location: Chicago
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How about water traps? As an infrequent painter (2-3 cars per year), I learned the hard way about this. I laid a nice black paint job on my Camaro and 2 weeks later water spots came up everywhere on the car from underneath the surface. At the very least, use one of those $5 filters right at the gun.
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Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/15/2009
Posts: 3
Points: 9
Location: Central California
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Thank's guy's
The weather has been very warm here, I am shooting outside in the open air, I do not have a shop to shoot it in, I have been shooting in the earlier morning when it is cooler and less wind, still was in higher 80s when I started and the sun is in direct contact with the vehicle so the metal was even warmer, the days when I shot temp would top out over 100, seeing what type of paint I am using what would you recommend to slow it down enough to get the melt, also gong to pay very close attention to my spray technique when I spray again, probable has a lot to do with it.
I have a regulator and separator at the tank and one of the little screw on filter's on my gun.
Thank you this help's a lot.
Bodhi
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Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/14/2008
Posts: 18
Points: 54
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Bingo! That sounds like where your trouble is coming from. Not sure if the single-stage white you are using is urethane, acrylic or synthetic (alkyd). They all mix differently, but in all three systems, you should be able to find slow (or even super slow... sometimes called "tropical") activators/reducers. On a large vehicle like you've got there, I would go with the slowest thing I could find, especially given the conditions. That will hopefully allow you to get around the entire thing without shooting dry spray onto a closed film surface. Most manufacturers will tell you their paint is designed to work best at 70-75°F, with low humidity and good cross flow ventilation during and after application. We (I mean all manufacturers) provide a range of reducers/activators for better performance under a variety of conditions. That said, even with a tropical reducer/activator combo, paint is not intended to be applied at 100° (nor is it designed to work with super fast "arctic" additives any lower than 60°F). Hope this helps set you in the right direction. Good luck, and be sure to let us know how it turns out. Mpaint
Technical Support Kirker Automotive Finishes Toll-free: 1-800-307-7951 info@kirkerautomotive.comwww.KirkerAutomotive.com
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Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/17/2008
Posts: 164
Points: 492
Location: K-TOWN
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I would like to say welcome aboard MPaint i'm sorry that I did get back sooner. I'm in Cali shooting my new show and I don't own a laptop.
Lou Santiago Swanyago Performance Chassis Fab, Paint, Bikes, Laser Cut Brackets, and More garageinsider@gmail.comGARAGEINSIDERTV.COM US Navy Retired/World Traveler Car Builder/Welder/Airport Investigator WORK IS FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN'T FISH. I GUESS I'M SCREWED BECAUSED I HATE FISHING.
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Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/20/2008
Posts: 14
Points: -55
Location: Chicago
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Lou, what's the story on your new show?
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